West Suffolk Motor Club are running the next Targa Rally on the 19th May, at Debden Airfield.
Regs and online entry form are here:
http://www.wsmc.co.uk/Debden-Targa.html
Tue, 16/04/2013 - 21:49
#1
Debden Targa Rally - 19th May
Can anybody confirm what surface this event takes place on. I have been told that it is more gravel than tarmac
Debden is a mix of firm, smooth concrete / tarmac and some loose gravel tracks. A lot of crews will be using up old knobbly tyres but tarmac tyres with plenty of tread will be good as well. The tests proved to be quite abrasive when we ran there last - a few crews using soft track-day / List 1B tyres did have problems with tyre wear.
Who else is entering this? Anything anyone wants to know? This was one of the best gymkhanas I've done and it's a shame we can't make it due to other commitments.
Hi guys,
I'm thinking about running my audi at this event, the last targa I ran I was in the bottom 5% of power in the pug.. Is it a ok track to run a road car? I don't wanna trash it.
Hi Adam,
Just read your post - use the 106! You could probably get an Audi round without damaging it, but why risk your road car when you have an ideal motorsport car in the 106. At this point in your motorsport learning curve it is not all about power until you've rung what you can out of the car you have. Until you can beat all the other 1400's in your class why pedal a bus ( that's what the audi would feel like) when you have a go kart.
I've just done the WSMC autosolo at Debden & my biggest problem was going the right way ( not having done an event without a navigator for 5 years, excuses , excuses), but the cones were a bit tight and there is every expectation they will be the same for the Targa as a means of slowing down the cars. The smaller and nimbler your car the better, and if they use the gravelly junctions ( used on the 2011 Gymkhana at Debden) you will want the 106.
We are not intending to use the brand new gravel roads for any tests, however there maybe a small element of loose concrete / tarmac on the old roads due to years of wear and tear. We anticipate that this will be swept away with the set up crew and first few cars as Debden is an ageing airfield and is not in precise condition.
Nice to see that the entry list is slowly creeping up. Tyre wear is to be expected on on these events and a little bit of loose stuff just adds variety .Be nice to finish this one.Looking forward to it.
"I'm In" as they say - I think I have got the bug for this although I have no idea yet what "this" is going to be other than what I have read but if it's anything like the Autosolo there a few weeks ago then it will be fun.
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I'm actually planning on not drinking and going home early from my cousins 40th the night before which says something !
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See you all Sunday and Jim, yes I remember, slowly slowly !! ;)
JJS
Entries have now closed but we are still short of marshals.
These events can not run without marshals and your kind generosity will be rewarded with a refreshment voucher, sufficient for a hot drink and snack free of charge, as some recognition of your invaluable contribution.
All marshals will also be entered in the marshal draw.
If you can help, even if you have never marshalled before, please contact Tony Hewitt
Re Debden Targa - Just to clarify - thoroughly enjoyed the event today - however I would comment that I was surprised how rough test 3,6,9 am and 10 and 13 pm was given the previous comments from the organisers regarding the condition of the surface for this event. PS. I was driving a totally standard MX5.
Great event yesterday thanks again!!
Sorry to moan but unlike the woodbridge targa the teams where the nav and the driver were both driving they could jump the que and race before most team had even been out. This ment most teams where sitting waiting for a long time not fun especally in the heat. In future it would be great if regardles of rank the teams with two drivers got to the back of the que once they had been round and waited so that everyone had been out once.
Another fantastic and fun day yesterday. Well done to West Suffolk MC and the CMC team involved too, as usual big thanks to the marshals that, for once, seemed to enjoy some decent weather.
I really enjoyed the venue and the test layout. I wasn't expecting that much gravel, or broken tarmac if you wish, that didn't bother me but I was worried about the massive bumps. I was hitting the sump every time and started panicking when we were doing that test... and I don't have a sumpguard (it's now on the shopping list)!
It was my first time driving on lose surface and it was great fun, so much fun that I had an encounter with a pile of dry leaves and mud by cone N on Test 9 (I think). Thankfully it was rather soft and only bent the car a little bit, the wheel was catching on the front arch and some basic engineering from John put it back... game still on!
John was consistently quicker than me in my car (I only beat him in one test), so that means my navigation was spot on, ha! :-)
on a serious note, I'm glad to see that in competent hands the little Mini can set very decent times.
Adam, please everyone else correct me if I'm wrong, the queues are very relative in rallying. You must stick to the running order as per the seeded entry list to help the event run smoothly. All the 'double drives' had lower number than yours and that was explained at the briefing. I understand it's not fun to sit waiting for a long time but that's the way it is!!
I very much doubt I'll be at the next targa due to family commitments ;-) but I'll try my best!
Did the woodbridge targa work the same way? I thought the second divers went out after everyone had been round once
Hi Adam,
I don't want to embark on a treatise on seeding as it is a non-exact science built on much experience of previous events.
All the tests yesterday took about 2 minutes but the really quick cars were still faster by about 30 seconds on the test I was on. It takes about 25 to 30 seconds to process a car at a finish; more if he has technical problems like it stalls and won't restart. So put a really quick car in behind a slow one and you have two cars at the finish together, one stopped and one under less than perfect control. This isn't ideal! On long tests the problem is greatly magnified and drivers don't appreciate being baulked by slower cars in front. It's not unknown for a really quick car to be held back to the next minute at a test start to give a less competitive one in front a chance to clear.
If you run all the double drives at the back they hold up the next run because the car isn't back to the paddock for the first driver to begin again. Therefore you delay the start of the next round and the effect is cumulative over a number of rounds. Therefore lunch breaks are delayed and ultimately the event finishes later in the day. It could have finished later yeaterday because it wasn't getting dark.
However, run an autosolo in October with 18 tests and 40 cars (720 timed tests) and you need to be finished by 3.30 because the light starts to go.
It is also slightly easier for the results team to have cars handing in time cards in roughly the right order, right being the number order on the entry list.
It may seem rediculous to sit about waiting to have a go and frustrating to have an apparent queue jumper dive in in front of you. However this system has been developed to get the job done as quickly and safely as possible and generally works OK.
I hope that, regardless of this, you enjoyed yourself and will return for others and the autosolos too.
What a fantastic day and great fun !
On that subject of double driving, that was REALLY hard work, especially being our first time on a targa (in fact any) kind of rally ! (That's not a complaint I hasten to add) :)
We were car 12 and 43 and except for the lunch break there wasn't even time to run to the toilet block, by the time you got back to the paddock to swap cards to get back to the start line you were getting further and further behind (or in reality, jumping more and more people in the queue which did feel bad) - in the end we stopped taking the time cards back after EACH drive and did both drives THEN did the time card swap - that worked a little better for us but just to show how far behind we got, as I say we were car 43 yet on the very last drive we had only 2 cars behind us left to run !
I loved the workout though (and actually might have lost some weight) but I missed the social "debriefs" that I experienced on my first time out on the AutoSolo. :)
But what a great day - looking forward to the next something...
and one more thing ... photos photos photos - can't wait to see them !!!!!!!!!!
Very enjoyable Debden Targa rally.Yes it was a little rough but we loved it and look forward to another at this venue. With regards to timing we started all tests well ahead of the target time we were given in the road book and thats with letting the double drives through until our number came round , can't ask for more ..
What a great day myself and Roy had, as this was my second targa i was prepared for tyre wear but not the rough, was worried that i was going to damage my car in the morning but the afternoon just went for it.
Came out the other end without to much damage, cones have a habit of jumping out in front of me and hitting my N/S wing nothing to do with my driving though.
Thanks to WSMC for organizing another great Targa. Many Thanks to all the Marshalls and timing guys and girls in the caravan which did a sterling job from CMC.
Cannot wait for the next one.
Debut rally for driver and co-driver and we had a hoot.
No wrong routes or penalties and honours even in the brain fade stakes between left and right seats.
Moderately pleased with 24th overall, 9th novice and 2nd u1300cc.
Loved the gravelly bits and quite glad I have a sump guard.
Also loved the value for money. After 25 years of racing and, even worse, sprints and hillclimbs it's amazing. 32mins driving time for £50! A lot better than the sub 5 mins I will get at Crystal Palace this Monday for £130. And I'll have to dig out the helmet, nomex rompers etc.
Many thanks to WSMC and all the marshalls.
Can't wait for the next one.
I had a very busy and enjoyable day driving my Fiesta and navigating for Adrian White in his BMW. After 6 tests I was 2 seconds up on him then eked out a margin of 8 by test 8 then fell 1 behind as Adrian was quicker on the reversed tests after lunch. Although I got a time 6 quicker than I should have done on 14 ( no difference to class or overall placings) we assessed I was back in fron t by 1 and Adrian overcooked the slalom on the very last test losing 6 secs byreversing. By double driving it was a "full on" day and I recommend that drivers that have to wait around for double drivers to complete their runs consider co driving for other drivers on Targa's. That way only one car gets worn out and their co drivers can marshal - or get their own cars.
Commiserations to brothers Gavin & Derek Rogers ( Gavin retired gearbox whilst in a titanic battle for 1st with Tomasz ,and Derek smoke & steam from MG/Rover.
I loved the venue, including the gravel and broken concrete, but agree some of the bumpiest bits on Test 3 could have been left out without making the tests fast enough to encroach on the 30 mph bogey. I felt a little more variation in the tests between each test, would challenge the navigators a bit more - but appreciate test changing increases the load on the organisers..
This venue will always be tougher on cars than some ( Wethersfield on 14th july will be smooth by the way ) but I think the test design can take out some of the roughest bits and I'm looking forward to next year at Debden already!
Hey guys,
For anyone that was competing in the Debden Targa Rally Last week - the photos are now online :)
www.flickr.com/photos/95490987
Apologies for the delay, it's been a busy week at uni! :O Anyway, hope you enjoy them :)
the gravel and dust definitely add something epic to them, haha!!
Is there any chance of getting the pics on a cd? I'd like to have the ones from the Debden autosolo too!!
I'll drop you an email...
Thanks
Luis 'minispaniard' (Red Mini)
Awesome photos good work!!!
Adam "PUG"
Are there any more pics? If there are any of car 49 (Blue Pug XSi) I'd be interested to see them.
@ minispaniard : You should be able to download them all direct from Flickr - failing that, I can create a ZIP file and send it to you via dropbox if that would be easier?
@ beng: I have two more which continues from the close up of your car with the dust kicking up... thought I wouldn't put them on as it is showing you miss the cone and covered in a cloud of dust! However if you would like to see it, then I'll upload it :)
I would have liked to have got more photos, but there was a lot of walking around to do during the day just to get some different shots - perhaps I'll need to take a bike with me next time!
Hi James,
Thanks for the update - I'm more than happy for the pics to go up. It was my nav's first event so it's good for him to remember those odd moments. Thanks for coming out on the day and taking pics, it's great to have something tangible to remember the day by.
Cheers,
Ben
Right, I've managed to save them on my laptop. I'm not familiar with Flickr, you see? all sorted now...
Thanks
so, it has been one week since the Debden Targa and I have looked at Monty's pictures at least 5 times...
guess what?!? I just realised now that I lost my front number plate. I guess it happened when I got stuck in the pile of mud and dry leaves around cone N on test 3!!!
... ouch!
Brilliant photos Monty. I loved the pictures inside the cars of concentrated faces, and arm waving.
Was there a naked man or woman off to the right, on one shot, I dont remember seeing one on the day!
minispaniard - Sorry about that :/ I haven't got a CD burner so I couldn't create a CD for you :( Do you use anything like dropbox? If so, then for future events I can e-mail you the link so you can download them at the click of a button :)
Wouldn't surprise me if that is where you lost your plate - you were attacking that stage like hell! :O
Beng - http://www.flickr.com/photos/95490987@N08/8889927838/in/photostream/
&
http://www.flickr.com/photos/95490987@N08/8889929356/
Those are the two extra photos to complete the chain of events - your co-driver's face is priceless during it! :D
Jimbowie - I know what you mean, the focus on your faces was brilliant to capture - if looks could kill so they say! No naked women from what I could see though!
thanks Monty, I now know how to download them from Flicker. It wasn't only a right click and save picture but I managed to do it now so no need for a cd or link to dropbox.
The one attacking wasn't probably me but John Convoy doing the double drive, haha!! I'm not that good... yet!!! :)
Great photos again Monty - My friends been working on an aerial photography platform (using a hexacopter) - Maybe I should put you two in touch with each other for some ground and aerial shots ?
Have a look at http://youtu.be/WrWzDQGdJJY to see what I mean ;)
I would be very interested! :D
However I'm not sure when I will next be at an event - Formula Student Project is taking up a lot of my time just now and then I'm back home to Jersey come the start of July :/
cant seem to find the link to the results, can anyone remember where it is?
Thanks-Adam
Their results are here: http://www.wsmc.co.uk/Debden-Targa-May-19-2013.html
Ellen received a cheque today, she was delighted and says thanks. I am also delighted, as it means she has a reason to pay our next 12 car entry..... :)