The longest running 12 car the Derek Stone ( and I have organised every one to date), will run on Friday 21st March. It has a lovely trophy for the winning crew with engraved names, will your name be on it this year I wonder?
Route is now all on map 167, north Essex being used. Start is at Chelmsford Accident Repair Centre, Chelmsford and the finish will be at the Dog and Partridge PH, Great Leighs. Entry form will be published any minute now.
I am competing in the Tour of Mauritius for first 2 weeks of March so have roped in Bob Blows to answer any questions and deal with issues whilst I am away, and Brian Milbank will collate marshals names for me.
This brings me on to help.
In addition to a minimum of 12 crews, I need 10 marshal crews, and equipment car and a closing car, so not too much to ask there! So if you cannot compete and would like to help please let me know a.s.a.p as this will save work for Brian M.
I am driving the route on Tuesday with Gordon Milbank and hope to have all clues, marshals control locations confirmed before I leave, more updates will appear on this page.
Fri, 21/02/2014 - 20:23
#1
Derek Stone 12 Car - Friday 21st March
let me be the first to put my name down for an entry along with stuart collett. forms and dosh in the post
pat tierney
For Ellen and Me.
Colin.
Entry went in the post this morning for Luis and JC in the red Mini. I hope it gets to you before the other 9...
Entry in the post this morning Chris and Andy
Mike and Colin in the TR6 is on the way.
Let's hope we were quick enough!
Cheers
Blimey, nearly lost in the rush - Mike & Darren in the post :-)
Mike and Mark; entry in the post. Blimey, the rush to get an entry in before it fills up is almost as exciting as the event itself....
Entries received so far in order of receipt
Equipment Car Ed Scott and ?
Course Car Brian Jaggs / Craig Marven
1. Michael Helm / Colin Waite
2. Kevin Ablit / John Hodgson
3. Ellen Tilney / Colin Sutton
4. Eddie Call / Adrian Bragg
5. Bradley Howlett / Simon Howlett
6. Luis Gutierrez Dias / John Conboy
7. Chris Parmenter / Andy Merchant
8. Mike Banks / Mark Rutter
9. Mike Bishop / Darren Armitage
10. Keith Lane / Julie Lane
11. Pat Tierney / Stuart Collett
12. Jon Bray / Lucy Fryer
R1. Jim Drake / Graham Robinson
R2 ?
R3 ?
Closing Car Paul Brewerton / Peter Brewerton
Drove the route last night with Gordon Milbank, the BOAT was had a corner and deep ditch on the left that was so tight we could not get the Range Rover round without going in the ditch, Gordon had to reverse about a quarter of a mile in sheer darkness with trees/bushes brushing either side and me walking behind with a torch. Decided the BOAT was a goer in a normal width car but a couple of deepish holes meant not really suitable for a 12 car now, used it about 5 years ago and was baby bum smooth. So, had to do a re-route amounting to around 10 miles. The new route includes a lovely long ford and a yellow so narrow that I had to hold back a small tree/bush to avoid scratching Gordon's car, even standing tight to the bank, Gordon still drove over my foot. Also found finish venue is not viable as they now have a fully booked restaurant so have moved finish to the Generals at Little Baddow. Also found some 'Quiet' lanes so overall even more re-route required. This has now been done and clues etc will be drafted by Bob Blows whilst I am away. I will not be able to drive the route until I get back from holiday but I know all the roads and control locations so will get the Escort out.
Would like to see a 2-3 reserves please and 6 more marshal crews please,
That's all for now
don't see my name on the entry list I sent my form in days ago. colin wake says he will pass my entry fee on to you from his 12 car that I have withdrawn from
Peter and I will be up for closing car duties, Brian, or whatever else is needed.
Paul
Entry form for Jim Drake and Graham Robinson went in the post today, Saturday 1st March. Looks like we might be 1st reserves. If we don't get a run we will help out with the marshalling. Graham.
Good job I had the softs on!
Cracking route
[quote=p1gordon]Good job I had the softs on!
Cracking route[/quote]
:-) ;-)
With two weeks to go to this event, we are still looking for more marshal crews, if you are able to help it would be most appreciated.
Please contact me at
so I can add you to the list.
Thanks, Brian
Are you looking for any closing cars ect? I have a friend who is looking to start road rallies and enduros who would like to have a go bit without the pressure of plotting in a hurry in his first event
Hi, if you need an extra marshal I can help out.
Scott.
[quote=dave]Are you looking for any closing cars ect? I have a friend who is looking to start road rallies and enduros who would like to have a go bit without the pressure of plotting in a hurry in his first event[/quote]
Dave, I think we are sorted for Course Closing but thanks for the offer
[quote=S Page]Hi, if you need an extra marshal I can help out.
Scott.[/quote]
Scott you are on the list, can you PM or e-mail me a contact number please
With only a week to go we could still do with a few more marshal's, looking at the weather I reckon you will keep dry :-) If you are able to help, please e-mail me
Sorry to keep on
Gave up on the Tour of Mauritius, too many penalties by leaving the cocktail late and getting to dinner OTL!, so came home without any trophies, but amazingly quite tanned.
Anyway, the seeded entry list based on the last 2 events is as follows. It is reverse seeded, the last years winners starting at the back. Classes are subject to Tony Michael's confirmation so may change before finals are posted .
1 Beginner Bradley Howlett/Simon Howlett Peugeot 205 Silver
2 Beginner Jonathan Bray/Lucy Fryer MG ZR Silver
3 Novice Mike Bishop/Darren Armitage Triumph GT6 White
4 Novice Chris Parmenter/Andy Merchant Rover White
5 Novice Kevin Ablitt/John Hodgson Peugeot 106 XSi White
6 Expert Eddie Call/Adrian Bragg MGB GT Blue
7 Novice Luiz Diaz/John Conboy Mini Red
8 Beginner Ellen Tilney/Colin Sutton Audi S3 Purple
9 Novice Michael Helm/Colin Wake Triumph TR6 Red
10 Novice Pat Tierney/Stuart Collett MG Blue
11 Novice Mike Banks/Mark Rutter Triumph Spitfire Blue
12 Beginner Keith Lane/Julie Lane Ford KA Silver
R1 Novice Jim Drake/Graham Robinson Mini Cooper ‘S’ White/Black
R2 Beginner Seamus Ascott/Cameron Campbell MG Red
Jim & Graham and Seamus and Cameron, if you do not get a start can I rely on you to marshal please?
I also need 2 more marshal crews please, I see there are lots of crews who have competed in past 2 12 cars who have not entered, so how about offering to help marshal please?
As I have changed the finish venue, you will use map 168. If you have this map then bring it with you but it really is such a small section that I will do a colour copy for you anyway.
I am going to drive the route on Tuesday evening if anyone fancies a drive round the final route? Entrants not accepted, sorry., then will get final instructions posted out on Wednesday via e-mail.
Thats all for now.
John cannot make this now due to work commitments so have drafted in Andy Elcomb on the maps. Brian, you might want to change that seeding a little? Kevin
Hi Brian
I'd be happy to come round with you to check the route. I can drop of the stakes and boards with you at the same time. Give me a call.
Cheers
Paul
Brian. Of course if no one drops out Graham and I are good for marshaling.
See you Friday
Jim white mini Cooper s (proper one)
Thanks to Paul Brewerton, we will do final route drive tomorrow.
Graham, thanks for agreeing to marshal, but based on previous events I expect one or more entrants to drop out so attend start and prepare to run.
Kevin, you will be Experts or Masters? Have done special clues just for Andy, thought just having the control map refs and then try and guess the correct route, reckon you would still do well.
Final instructions will be sent out to everyone by e-mail on Wednesday, route change, no longer need 168 map.
There will be 2 DSO's observing the quiet zones, breach this and you are excluded! so navigators make sure you shout at the drivers, drivers make sure that when you go to high beam you do not have 4 lamps lit. I caught 3 like this last time I DSO'd.
More updates after last route check tomorrow.
Brian, not too sure of the definition of Master so will leave it up to you to decide which class we run in. I'm sure the clues you give will be sufficiently challenging to prevent us from winning again :-) but looking forward to seeing the roads you have discovered. Kevin
Hi Brian, Jim and I will be at the start as requested. If you know by today, Wednesday , that we will not get a run, we will be more than happy to do two (2) Time Controls. Cheers Graham & Jim (Proper Mini)
Thanks to Paul for doing the final route check with me last night, and what a good thing we did. 1 miles from the last control and the road was closed, flooded by over a foot deep of water for about 20m. As a result, I have had to re-do last 2 sections. To get to the finish and keep a last section, additional route has added a couple of miles. Clues amended already and will be finally checked tomorrow night.
Route timing/mileage appears to be spot on, as we checked both distance and time last night in my diesel Freelander. The 3 sections with QZ's are rounded up, i..e timed less than than 30mph.
Finals have been sent out by e-mail tonight. All marshals have confirmed, if we do not have any competitors drop out then we will have every QZ observed by DSO.
Entry list seeding has been amended and two crews have been upgraded following recent wins/class wins, thanks to Tony Michael for confirming this for me.
I am also told Master crews cannot win the Derek Stone trophy although they can come first.overall.
Any further updates will be posted tomorrow
Event is in the bag so to speak, only got time cards to print.
1 Beginner Bradley Howlett/Simon Howlett Peugeot 205 Silver
2 Beginner Jon Bray/Lucy Fryer MG ZR Silver
3 Beginner Keith Lane/Julie Lane Ford KA Silver
4 Novice Mike Bishop/Darren Armitage Triumph GT6 White
5 Novice Jim Drake/Graham Robinson Mini Cooper ‘S’ White/Black
6 Novice Luiz Diaz/John Conboy Mini Red
7 Novice Ellen Tilney/Colin Sutton Audi S3 Purple
8 Novice Pat Tierney/Stuart Collett MG Blue
9 Novice Mike Banks/Mark Rutter Triumph Spitfire Mk3 Blue
10 Expert Eddie Call/Adrian Bragg MGB GT Blue
11 Expert Michael Helm/Colin Wake Triumph TR6 Red
12 Master Kevin Ablitt/Andy Elcomb Peugeot 106 XSi White
R1 Beginner Seumus Ascott/Cameron Campbell MG Red
Officials
Equipment Car Ed Scott/Ben Scott
Course Car Brian Jaggs/Craig Marven
MTC0 Brian Jaggs
TC1 Gary Nicholls
TC2 David Earthy
TC3 David and Elizabeth Everett
TC4 Scott Page
TC5 Sue Speller/Bob Blows
TC6 Jim Bowie
TC7 Brian Milbank
TC8 Ann Still
TC9 Tony Michael
TC10 Tony Burchnal
MTC11 Brian Jaggs
Closing Car Peter Brewerton/Paul Brewerton
That's all now, any changes let me know by 5.30pm tonight and I can accommodate documentation updates after that changes will be made at the start, otherwise see you this evening.
Good morning all, please find attached finalised results plus clues for the other classes should anyone be interested.
To all those who enjoyed last nights event, thank you for your appreciation for those who clearly or should I say audibly not, then I apologise. My thanks to John Conboy and Adrian Bragg for telling me exactly why, as for those others who were clearly upset about things, your conversation were loud enough for me to hear but unfortunately being deaf in one ear I could not make out your exact grievances.
I will make one assumption as to why. Code board boxes on time sheets, I am not aware that the rules of 12 cars say these must equal the number of code boards place out. From an organisers perspective there are many reasons why you should have a spare box. Firstly, some crews write DIP boards and QZ boards in code board boxes (as happened last night for the Dip board), also occasionally despite best planning when you are driving the route you do see something that tells you that it is right to add in additional board (as I did last night for the very last board). If you do not have the spare boxes navigators start adding them in the next empty box for the next section which in turn makes doing the results that much harder. This said, with the benefit of hindsight, I could and perhaps should, have notified crews of this in the finals.
I would ask navigators to think about this though. Code Boards are only placed as route confirmation. Where there is no possible deviation from the direct route then there really is no need for a board as the clue would be pretty much be drive from one TC to the next via the shortest route. For example, TC1, the first code board was on a loop (see results), once you go to the end of this loop, you had to turn right towards Leighs. There after the route took you to TC2, there were no loops, no LWR’s, in fact no-where to put a board and no need to put a board. The timing and distance determined the route. Ditto section 2, the first board was on a loop, the second on a LWR, the rest was a straightforward drive from A to B so no need for any more boards? We should not put boards on A road, B roads, built up areas. You should be more confident with you plotting, I do not know how much easier we could have made the clues, in fact judging by the results, you all plotted pretty well.
However, I do appreciate that I am a certified dinasaur now, and having organised over 60 twelve cars since 1978, realise that competitors expectations froma 12 car and my rationale for organising are not in sync. Hence why I decided that last night was the very last 12 car I organise for Chelmsford Motor Club. As an organiser, you put in lots of time and expense to try and run the perfect event and the payback is that hopefully everyone enjoyed the results of your efforts. It is clear to me that organising 12 cars for the current crews needs to be by novices and experts who are currently supporting these events, that way you get what you want.
Jim, Graham, in February 2015, could I have my Derek Stone trophy back as I would like to formally present that back to Christine as a momento of 25+ Derek Stone rallies.
To all marshals, equipment crews, closing crews, course car, DSO and Christine, many thanks for your support for this event and many many others. It was a lot colder out there than it looked and without your respective efforts, events just would not run, so on behalf of everyone thankyou and hoped the easter eggs have all been eaten.
Best regards
Brian
from one dinosaur to another let me say that I have always believed that 12 car rallys are the training ground for navigators to learn their craft. I have been rallying since the early 70's and have done 100's of events. from 12 car's to Motoring news events all over the country. every event has a different organizer with a different view on navigation. 12 car's are not supposed to be easy they are supposed to be testing so you can learn from your mistakes. let me just say that on the first section when we only had one code board and two boxes I did say to my navigator trust your own plotting if you think you are right go with it. there is no doubt the reason the Master navigator came in first was because he was the best navigator its called experience and it only comes with time. we made errors and paid the price. perhaps 12 cars should be pre plot. come on Brian pick those toys up and put them back in the pram. I for one appreciate your efforts on this and indeed everything you do for the club. to quote a well little known saying NIL BASTIDO CARBORUNDUM (don't let the bastards grind you down)
pat
For those who remember my 12 cars, i always used to have spare code board boxes on most sections. It is a way as Brian says allowing for the day stuff and to challenge the navs....
The last road rally i did (Bath Festival '14) had exactly this approach to, and you had to work out your due and otl times.
12 Cars are a chance to learn and then progress to bigger events.
I have done events before with spare boxes and wouldn't be surprised to have spare boxes. Different event but aren't there often spare boxes on targa rally timecards?
The phrase "trust your plotting" is very true. I didn't, not that long ago on an event in our area. I thought I'd be "clever" and "make up answers" only to discover you got penalised for obviously guessed answers...... Fail! Cost us many places because I doubted myself but if I'd trusted my work I'd have been ok.
Many thanks to Brian and all the marshals for a super event yesterday which I really enjoyed. Great choice of roads and clues, and the timing must have been good for us as we normally just scrape in before OTL! I must have been concentrating quite hard on the driving as at one point we arrived at Beazley End, very close to where I used to live as a lad, and thought how on earth did we get here?
Thanks again - Mike Banks Car 9 -Spitfire Mk3
My view is that we have had probably 2 seasons with 1 box 1 code board, so our mindset was when we got to a control we must fill all empty spaces. If we were hinted/ told /reminded that was going to be the case we wouldnt have panicked and turn round to find them, thus running otl and having to cut, picking up more fails. As novices or most of us in that class now are semi experts,
I totally agree that we have to be challenged, and should be open to different types of things. I have done a couple of other clubs events to broaden my experience but they have all given clear instructions.
On the positive side, thought the route and roads used were top quality, with good and challenging navigation methods and about right timings. I would look forward to doing another one knowing what I know now.
Thanks to Brian and your crew and all the marshals who turned out on a cold evening so we can go and play.
I would like to say many thanks to you Brian for a cracking route. It was great to drive with a lovely variation of road size and surfaces. What more could I ask for - Beats a Sunday afternoon drive hands down.
I have no complaints, only gratitude that you and the CMC have given me the opportunity to drive my old MGB with a purpose (against similar cars and crews) for a just few quid and only 30 minutes or so from home.
We lost time, we usually do; no plot and bash for us, we usually get to the finish expecting to be last and I am the most surprised to find we're not. The clues are a challenge, mostly due to the clock ticking on. Often with hind sight they're quite straight forward; We are a crew after all and how can Adrian plot if I can't see a LWR in TLTRTTTLLLWRTRTRTR, Its as clear as day now. The table top is a good example of this, maybe we all could do with some virtual rallies; that's a subject for another forum.
I have done many rallies; 12 car's and others, and the CMC 12 car rallies are to me the most rewarding of all. Six hours of a national B rally, cutting route after less than an hour is depressing, but so is half the field arriving at a 12 car finish with zero fails, and the first three having cleaned it as happened a few years ago. Where's the challenge in that.
These are great 12 car events; well organised, well driven, and as for the marshals, WELL DONE ALL.
As for code boards, as an expert crew I'm just pleased to see one. We plot the route and get what we get, it's not a treasure hunt after all.
I totally agree with Eddie's comment about treasure hunts. In fact a couple of years ago the 12 car group decided to vary the penalties in the common regs for OTL or missing a control to 3 fails to redress the balance between time and correct route because people were going back to collect 'missed' boards, as the penalty for going OTL was the same as missing codeboards. On the narrow roads we use deliberately going against route is dangerous and not to be encouraged. It is different to retracing your steps when you realise you have made a wrong slot. To quote Eddie again "We plot the route and get what we get" is the correct approach. I do hope Brian can be persuaded to change his mind about organising more Derek Stones as it has always been the one event we have really wanted to enter because we know it will be a good 'un; I have also enjoyed working with Brian on the organisation in the last couple of years. As an organiser I judge my own events against Brian's and I hope I'm getting closer as the years go by...
Just to let you know I have already started to work out the route and clues for the first event of the 2014/2015 Winter Series, to be run in September.
Paul
It was tough. I had a bad, bad, night which might not have turned out so bad if it had been easier, but it was the same for everyone of course.
My limited navving experience has been that there are time cards where every section has the same number of spaces for boards, and others where each section has a different number. The former I have taken to mean 6 spaces = up to 6 but probably fewer; the latter 2 boxes =2 boards. And that has been the form on all the CMC 12 cars I have done, so I did expect all the boxes to need filling up. But of course that is not to say that is the rule, just that is what I have found to be the case.
I have learned as a result from last night, and that is the purpose of doing the 12 cars, despite my advancing years the left hand seat is still very new to me and I want to learn. I certainly didn't complain either quietly or loudly last night, and am grateful for this longer than usual post-event discussion as it is yet more learning.
We also shouldn't forget that it is a hobby, is meant to be fun, and can't happen without organisers.
It wasn't the best day at the Mini office but from a driver's point of view it was a great selection of lanes and some slippery surfaces so I enjoyed it.
Big thanks to Brian for organising and all his team of marshals and other helpers for allowing us to play.
Not mine but good to see a Mini 'kind of' winning, can we have a 'marque championship' for the 2014-2015 series? I tried but I couldn't keep up with the red Triumph!!
Brian, I was surprised and saddened to read your post above. I obviously missed the discussions in the pub that you referred to. We as a crew also worried about having missed codeboards but with the recent change to OTL penalties, never considered turning back! I also had in the back of my mind that empty boxes, although not the norm, had been the case on some previous CMC 12 cars (maybe yours?) so didn't worry too much. I have always looked forward to your rallies, usually finding them to be challenging and rewarding. Last night was no exception. My only observation is another confirmation of what i have been thinking for some time, in that my choice of car (the GT6) is perhaps less than ideal when pitched up against much faster moderns. Those for whom I pulled over to let by can testify :-)
I also appreciate the results analysis that you take the trouble to compile and send afterwards - that we don't get from most other organisers!
For selfish reasons, I hope that this won't be your last event. But whatever you decide, thanks very much and all the best!
Mike
Brian
I really enjoyed driving the event. And thought the choice of roads was excellent, it really challenged driver and car and we were very happy to win the trophy. Thanks again to you and your team of marshals for all the efforts that has been put in to run this event.
With regards to the navigation, Graham did a great job to keep us in the right route and I congratulate him on that.
I did experience his frustration for apparently missing code boards on each section and I think this did effect his enjoyment of the event.
Maybe a row of eight blank boxes for code boards on each stage would have been a better choice, to let competitors know that all boxes did not necessarily get filled in. However I am sorry if discussions about this in the Finnish venue lead you to think that the competitors were unhappy with the whole event. Far from it, I think everybody enjoyed the nights challenge.
I appreciate the considerable effort that you have put in to running events over the years for CMC and would hope that you would reconsider your decision to step down.
I have the trophy in a prominent place in my living room, to proudly show off to all visitors to my house, Of course I will return it for you to give back to Christine when ever you wish, just PM me with the address where you would like it dropped off.
Thanks again
Jim Drake - Mini Cooper 's' (proper one)
The 12 car winter series is in a constant state of evolution, especially as new organisers come on board. I think that the equal number of boxes (the timecard will easily accommodate 6) per section is a good idea and one I will use on the Priestley in September. The finals will mention this. It might also be a good idea to mention in common regs/finals that crews should not knowingly go contra route for safety reasons. We will plan a 12 car organisers' meeting in the close season to agree the common regs as well as areas to use for each event to avoid double use of roads.
Paul
Hi Brian
Thanks for another great 12 car, the roads were great as usual. Also for the rundown after the event.
The boxes were a bit of an issue but if your sure of your plotting you know you are heading in the right direction, after doing my first left seat on the SW Endurance Rally i have a completely different outlook on what is expected of the NAV.
Please don,t let comments from people put you off from putting on another great event, as those that made the comments want to give it a go as an organiser then they might realise how much effort goes into organising the evening.
Thanks again
Jon
Brian,
Many thanks to you, the event officials and especially the marshals who braved a bitter winters night to give us a great evenings motor sport. Also thanks to Chelmsford Accident Repair Centre for the use of their facility for the start venue.
You gave us a challenging route with great roads for the driver. I know Jim thoroughly enjoyed them including the extra bits due to my wrong slotting on a couple of occasions. Bit surprised by our final position because I thought we had missed so many code boards on the time card. A new format is frustrating at the time but it’s all about the learning process for 12 Car Rally Navigation. It’s just another one for the Navigators “Toolbox”.
Once again, many thanks for a great event and I sincerely hope it will not be your last.
Graham
Would just like to say thanks for all the marshals for turning out on Friday and braving the coldish weather, hope you avoided the early wintry showers. Thanks also to the crews behaving themselves where I was DSO (Felsted School) and also coming though my TC and being patient when it got a bit busy.
Brian TC7
I think we need to exercise a bit of caution here. Whilst I fully agree that it's not a good idea to have rally cars going back against oncoming rally traffic, and that code board touring is not a good idea, I think that it would be a step too far to include that as specific no no in the regs.
In this last rally, on two occasions we came head to head with an oncoming rally car, both times due to having mis-navigated and unexpectedly ended up on the wrong road, facing the wrong direction. On at least one other previous rally, this time due to a major navigational hiccup, we just didn't know where we were on the map and ended up meeting half a field of rally cars coming the other way down a narrow lane - who were on the next section on from us!
If you put a "must not do" in the regs, then you should probably put some sort of penalty in for non compliance. This is what I really think would be wrong, therefore I would suggest that if a mention in regs is deemed to be necessary then it should be referenced as advisory rather than mandatory! The code board touring issue I think has been largely sorted by the 3 fails for OTL rule so maybe not so much of an issue now?
Mike
This is something we can discuss at our organisers meeting, at which regular 12 car competitors (and thus potential organisers)are welcome. I was envisaging a reminder that it is not good practice. Sometimes it is unavoidable because of misplotting/wrong slots but the aim should always be to get back on route and moving forward as soon as possible. Meeting another car is usually due to wrong slots, especially if several cars make the same mistake and the first turns round to get back on route, which is all part of rallying!
sounds like a meeting worth attending, will make efforts to be there :-)
regards
Mike