April Blossom 12 Car Rally - Friday 25th April 2014 - Final round of the Winter series
Start and finish will be at The Rose pub on the Shenfield Road (A1023), nr Brentwood.
Total distance will be approximately 50 miles through the lanes of Essex.
All the route is on one map; OS Landranger series map 167 of Chelmsford [Harlow and Bishops Stortford].
The entry form will be posted here in a couple of days time, and entry is on first received basis with entry form and payment.
- Replies to this posting do not count as entries.
All offers for marshalling will be gratefully accepted.
Entries received so far in order of receipt
1. Dave Thompson / Jarrod Thompson - Subaru Forester (Expert)
2. Jim Drake / Graham Robinson - Austin Mini Cooper ‘S’ (Novice)
3. Mike Banks / Mark Rutter - Triumph Spitfire (Novice)
4. Michael Helm / Colin Wake - Triumph TR6 ( Expert)
5. Pat Tierney / Stuart Collett - MG ZR (Novice)
6. Luis Gutierrez Dias / Lucy Fryer - Austin Mini (Novice)
7. Bradley Howlett / Simon Howlett - Peugeot 205 (Novice)
8. John Peterson / Ian Graham - Peugeot 306 Gti (Expert)
9. Paul Dumbill / Scott Page - Peugeot 106 Rallye (Novice)
10. Ellen Tilney / Colin Sutton - Audi S3 (Novice)
11. Keith Lane / Julie lane - Ford KA (Beginner)
12. Tony Knell / Fiona Fynn - Toyota Avensis (Beginner)
Looking forward to it. stamped envelope and cheque book at the ready.
The Entry Form is here.
I am new to the 12 car events. Could you tell me the cost please and if I need extra insurance.
Thank you
Entry fee is £10, and insurance is £15. All details are on the entry form which you can downloaded from the link at the top of this forum
Entry for Jim Drake and Graham Robinson will be in the posrt first thing Monday 24th March.
Graham
entry now in the post for me and Lucy Fryer. JC has abandoned me, apparently he prefers a holiday away than a nice bumpy ride in the Mini... :D
My wife has put her foot down! She thinks we are getting too close! What with all the meetings about the Targa.I think she is worried about our marital status!
That was Sally posting
Entry for myself and Scott Page, in post.
Hopefully the carrier pigeons from Woodbridge are using super unleaded this time.
Many tahnks
Paul Dumbill
8 entries received in post today. Filling up fast
Novice for myself and Luis please! Looking forward to it. :)
no show from me for this one I'm afraid, will be working one of my last night shifts before job change!
Unfortunately I will not be able to marshal this one on my doorstep :-( as we will be in Nuneaton ready for the Horiba D'Isis Stages the following day :-)
I would appreciate all offers to marshal, if you're available please post here, email or call me and I'll get back to you. My contact details are on the entry form linked to the forum here.
All controls well within the Brentwood, Harlow, Chelmsford triangle, so hopefully its fairly local to many of you.
Friday 25th April; so a nice mild night is expected. 7 more marshals are needed and early offers get to pick of the most convenient place.
Please help out if you can.
Can anybody confirm an answer for me please. May be a silly question, is the entry fee of £10 for a 12 car, per person or per car?
Per car. So the answer you were probably hoping for! :)
don't forget to add 15 more if your road insurance doesn't have competition cover included...
worth paying the £15 event insurance on top of that though :-)
Thank you. Excellent news. Its only so I can go and show myself up by getting completely lost and ending up in another county somewhere. That's if there are still any places left.
Thank you.
As noted above you can pay £15 on an event by event basis. If you are doing more that a few events a it may be worth getting specialist insurance. Jelf Motorsport.com provides event cover for all CMC road rallies and 12 cars, as well as sponsoring the AEMC regional stage rally championship but the can provide insurance for individuals' cars which includes rally cover - contact Jaz Bareham (a well known competitor and marshal on the local rallying scene) for a quote - 01482 388513
/ www.jelfmotorsport.com
Hi Eddie, Ive sent you an email regarding this. Im available to Marshall for this event.
[quote=jackamason]Hi Eddie, Ive sent you an email regarding this. Im available to Marshall for this event.[/quote]
Many thanks for your offer. I'll email you direct to confirm which TC suits you best.
Seeded Entry List as at 13th April 2014
Class - Driver / Navigator - Car
1. Beginner - Tony Knell / Fiona Fynn - Toyota Avensis
2. Beginner - Keith Lane / Julie lane - Ford KA
3. Novice - Luis Gutierrez Dias / Lucy Fryer - Austin Mini
4. Novice - Bradley Howlett / Simon Howlett - Peugeot 205
5. Novice - Paul Dumbill / Scott Page- Peugeot 106 Rallye
6. Novice - Ellen Tilney / Colin Sutton - Audi S3
7. Novice - Pat Tierney / Stuart Collett - MG ZR
8. Novice - Mike Banks / Mark Rutter - Triumph Spitfire
9. Novice - Jim Drake / Graham Robinson - Austin Mini Cooper ‘S’
10. Expert - Dave Thompson / Jarrod Thompson - Subaru Forester
11. Expert - John Peterson / Ian Graham - Peugeot 306 Gti
12. Expert - Michael Helm / Colin Wake - Triumph TR6
Is there one more marshal available for Friday evening next week to come and help out on this 12 car?
We have had a great response for this final 12 car of the winter season. full entry and just one more marshal needed.
I will ask around and see if i can find someone else to help out. If i find someone, would you be able to put them with me?
[quote=jackamason]I will ask around and see if i can find someone else to help out. If i find someone, would you be able to put them with me?[/quote]
Thanks for your offer, but I'm looking for a marshal for another control.
Although feel free to ask a friend to help you at your control. If this is your first time marshalling, I can give you more info on the procedure.
If you can make it, I will be at the club night tonight and can show you a time cards and where to record the times etc, Although it is very straight forward.
...would do but Jon and I will be on our way to the Ross Endurance. Marshalling for the classic though :)
Justin
[quote=EddieC]Is there one more marshal available for Friday evening next week to come and help out on this 12 car?
We have had a great response for this final 12 car of the winter season. full entry and just one more marshal needed.[/quote]
Final marshal post now filled. Thanks Brian for your offer.
As this is the last 12 car of the 13/14 winter series will anyone be able to take the series winners cup form me on this Friday so it will be ready to present to this seasons winner at the July BBQ.
Mark
If Tony M is not out on this one I'll take the trophy at the finish and pass it on at committee.
Cheers
Paul
Thanks Paul See you Friday
Cheers Mark
I have emailed out the finals to all competitors.
Please confirm receipt by email. If you have not received them. please let me know this by email.
Seeded entry list remains as posted earlier.
Class - Driver / Navigator - Car
0. Beginner - Barry Withers / Alan Mills - BMW M535
1. Beginner - Tony Knell / Fiona Fynn - Toyota Avensis
2. Beginner - Keith Lane / Julie lane - Ford KA
3. Novice - Luis Gutierrez Dias / Lucy Fryer - Austin Mini
4. Novice - Bradley Howlett / Simon Howlett - Peugeot 205
5. Novice - Paul Dumbill / Scott Page- Peugeot 106 Rallye
6. Novice - Ellen Tilney / Colin Sutton - Audi S3
7. Novice - Pat Tierney / Stuart Collett - MG ZR
8. Novice - Mike Banks / Mark Rutter - Triumph Spitfire
9. Novice - Jim Drake / Graham Robinson - Austin Mini Cooper ‘S’
10. Expert - Dave Thompson / Jarrod Thompson - Subaru Forester
11. - withdrawn -
12. Expert - Michael Helm / Colin Wake - Triumph TR6
Officials are as follows;
Board Car - Ed Scott / Rich Baker
Course car - Eddie Call / Adrian Bragg
MTC0 - Peter Brewerton / Paul Brewerton
TC1 - Andy Merchant
TC2 - Jim Bowie
TC3 - Gordon Milbank
TC4 - David & Elizabeth Everett
TC5 - Martin Styles
TC6 - Jack Mason
TC7 - Brian Petty
TC8 - Andy Merchant
TC9 - Jim Bowie
Closing car - Peter Brewerton / Paul Brewerton
DSO - Brian Jaggs
Please let me know if there are any last minute changes. See you all on the night.
We have an Audi that won't retain its brake fluid and a Mini that can't hold its oil.
We will be there, in whichever vehicle decides it wants to play by tomorrow evening. I hate cars sometimes........
Unfortunately car 11. John Peterson / Ian Graham in the- Peugeot 306 Gti has withdrawn due to mechanical issues.
But on the plus side, I am please to say that a late reserve request has back filled the place so we still have a full entry.
Beginner - Barry Withers / Alan Mills - BMW M535 will start as car 0, and the car 11 place will be a non starter.
All other start numbers will stay as issued yesterday.
A revised finals v2 will be emailed out to all competitors.
[quote=Sutnav]We have an Audi that won't retain its brake fluid and a Mini that can't hold its oil.
We will be there, in whichever vehicle decides it wants to play by tomorrow evening. I hate cars sometimes........[/quote]
That is okay. you can confirm the vehicle details at signing on.
Just been advise The Rose PH is closed and car park blocked.
Am on my way to check and if correct find out if the Prince of Wales PH (Plough on google maps) on the Mountnessing road is a available.
Will post here and email out any late changes
And I thought I had problems in February with the car park of the pub being too busy! What a nioghtmare...
Good luck, I am sure we can improvise if needed. Perhaps pack a flask each... :-)
[quote=EddieC]Just been advise The Rose PH is closed and car park blocked.
Am on my way to check and if correct find out if the Prince of Wales PH (Plough on google maps) on the Mountnessing road is a available.
Will post here and email out any late changes[/quote]
Just been to see the Rose PH. The lights are on, but no ones home, and car park is barricaded.
The Prince of Wales PH in Mountnessing at MR 632 979 has stepped in as a last minute change.
Plenty of parking space in car park of Mountnessing village hall opposite
Start time will be five minutes earlier to allow for the extra 2 miles. Time at TC1 remains the same.
Finals will be revised and emailed/handed out as signing on.
Thanks to the organisers and officials once again for a terrific evening's entertainment. Congratulations to the Mini crews for their 1-2, and to the beginners for making it a finish.
It was a bit of a rush for us, but I really enjoyed putting the old girl through her paces. And the car went well too :)
Thank you to all who either organised, marshalled or had any input with the 12 car. We thoroughly enjoyed the evening even though we only made it to 5 time controls but on the other hand, saw a lot of the countryside that other competitors didn't !!!!! Think its time to look at navigational classes so we can enjoy the events to the full and slowly become more competitive. Thank you also to all that helped us on this, our 1st event, it was very much appreciated. At least we made it back to the pub. That was a bonus.
Ditto to those above! Thoroughly enjoyed last night again and all made possible by organisers, marshals and other competitors. Special thanks to Luis for asking me to do it last night and was a brilliant driver and caller of clues! And for putting up with the fact that we nearly finished the rally a section early...we were heading to the pub when I realised there was more route on my map that we hadn't done!! Thanks all. :) Looking forward to the next season!
I observed at Doddinghurst, first quiet zone on Section 1. everyone was very quiet and speed was pretty much spot on. 2 cars missed the left turn where I was standing, both beginners. [Eddie I think that the beginners did not have marked maps in envelopes to open in an emergency?]
I then went to TC3 (Gordon Milbank and grandson) and saw all cars again bar Keith and Julie who looked like they were closest to their due time. All cars were slow coming in and dipped their lights, a nice courtesy to marshals. I assume timing was quite Ok at this point as no-one appeared to be particularly fast coming into the control. All crews very appreciative of the marshals, again another nice touch.
Then off to Blackmore. I situated myself just before exit of the quiet zone. still in the 30 zone. There were no street lights, very dark and very tempting for spot lights, but no-one fell into the trap and once again everyone was very quiet although 4 cars were a bit too fast, this said, they were not noisy and considering speed of other non rally traffic certainly would not have shown out..
So all in all, well done to all crews for being so well behaved.
One observation, some cars have separate main beam lights, when you go to main beam, all 4 lamps are lit. Although these are not additional spot lights, the do look wrong when driving through quite zones, and make the car far more noticeable and a lot more light pollution to residents. Can someone advise technical aspect as in Blue Book please?
Looking forward to seeing the results and time penalties dropped. Eddie and I had lots of discussion about rounding up/down. Well done Eddie, sounds like a success.
Big thanks to Eddie and all his team for a thoroughly entertaining evening, yet another fantastic route. The night was a mild one for the marshals, thanks to all of them. I was well chuffed with coming 2nd overall and 1st Novice, my first ever trophy with a ´1st something' engraved.
Great to see a Mini 1-2 too, well done to Jim and Graham.
Lucy did a fantastic job on the maps, she is such a confident navigator. We were lucky that the first code board on the last section wasn't on the instructions, when we arrived to the previous TC Lucy was sure it was the end of the competitive sections so we just started plodding along, she only realised the mistake when we got to the T junction before crossing over the A12!!
Well done to the Beginners for making it back to the pub despite finding it tricky. There's something great about CMC, and it is the help and support that experienced members give to the newcomers.
Once again, thank you all for a fantastic evening. To all the 12 car crews, see you in September (the latest)!!
Many, many thanks to Eddie, Adrian their officials and the marshals for another great CMC event. Great route with roads for the drives could enjoy. Jim did a great job at the wheel and it was great fun following Luis and Lucy .Once again got caught out just after the "Dip" board and turned left too early. Fortunately Jim remembered the same mistake from a previous time and we were back on route without to much delay.
Congratulations to Tony and Fiona for making it to the finish on their 1st event. Hopefully this result will encourage them to give it another try in September.
Everything about the event was just right and it was a great Finale to CMC's "Winter Series".
Thanks again to all the officials and competitors.
[quote=jaggsie]
One observation, some cars have separate main beam lights, when you go to main beam, all 4 lamps are lit. Although these are not additional spot lights, the do look wrong when driving through quite zones, and make the car far more noticeable and a lot more light pollution to residents. Can someone advise technical aspect as in Blue Book please? [/quote]
As I recall, and from a quick scan of the BB, the rules for a Quiet zone are not defined. However they are for Neutral sections, and this is where there is a restriction on the use of "...auxiliary lamps, except as permitted by law in conditions of poor visibility." (R.10.3.1) Which I guess is fog lamps in fog, spray, smoke or falling snow?
I have always believed that the grille-mounted standard lights on a Golf GTI are not auxiliary lamps, as they are standard for the model and designed to come on with main beam. I never therefore put them on a separate switch. However, some years ago when running a GTI with Oscars mounted on the bumper instead of the standard lights I did switch them. My thinking was that they are now non-standard additions, and so need to be shut off in neutrals.
But now you mention it, the headlamps on the Golf are twin-filament, and so on main beam you get two headlamps on main beam and two grille driving lamps. This is different to some four-lamp systems - such as on our Audi - where the dipped lamps stay on dip and the separate main beam units come on as well.
Thinking about this, I would say the latter is definitely not auxiliary lamps but I suppose the Golf might be. Is the mistake made by my confusing 'auxiliary' with 'additional, non-standard'? Construction and Use Regs don't use the word auxiliary, so aren't much help. Dictionary defines auxiliary as 'giving additional support or help'. I am always reluctant to trouble them, but perhaps we should ask the Motorsport UK?
Having sat in the pub before the start comparing how badly our respective eyesights had become, I think we proved it out in the course, by me misreading one set of clues (and thus missing Mr Jaggs analysing our performance) and then driving straight past 3 codeboards and not seeing them at all.
I did contemplate blaming mistakes in the Expert clues, but as the other experts got all the boards, I had to dismiss that idea and let the blame fall where it deserved to,.
Perhaps I do need those new glasses i have promised myself...... -)
Thanks to Eddie for an enjoyable evening, and congratulations to the Jim and Graham, you must be "experts" by now.........
[quote=Sutnav][quote=jaggsie]
But now you mention it, the headlamps on the Golf are twin-filament, and so on main beam you get two headlamps on main beam and two grille driving lamps. This is different to some four-lamp systems - such as on our Audi - where the dipped lamps stay on dip and the separate main beam units come on as well.
[/quote]
All of the 4 headlamp Triumph models are twin filament outer, single (main) filament inner - this is standard from the factory!
Well done to everyone, gutted I couldn't do this one.
Colin, looks like you and Mike were "lucky" :-)
Firstly I would like to say thank you; to all who took part; the crews new and old, to all the marshals for coming out, to Adrian for his help and for driving me round (three times), and to all the CMC committee who advised and supported me on this the my first 12 car as an organiser, and finally to Jim Drake who alerted me on Thursday night that The Rose PH had shut up shop, so I could get The Prince of Wales PH in place at the 11th hour (actually 10:30pm).
It sounds like you all enjoyed yourselves; although I could of and should of have given more help to the two new member beginners (as Brian says above), by giving you emergency use marked route map; Keith you don't need an emergency map. This is the main thing I take away as an organiser.
I hope to see the new beginners again, and now we have the summer break it gives you the time to practice plotting clues. I strongly recommend you come for the training sessions at the club nights. Please contact the CMC committee to get one-to-one advice or small group training set up. Alan/Barry, Tony/Fiona as new members and late entrants you didn’t have much time to prepare. Others have done worse. You will improve. PS, I liked the M535i (unusual choice for a 12 car), how did it fare through the narrow lanes & LWRs?
From the feedback I think both the timing and the clues were just about right. The first 6 finishers did very well, and I don’t think Adrian and I would have done as well as you did.
Now here is what you’re wanting for - the result confirmation.
I will compile a spreadsheet to email out tomorrow showing where the CBs and time were dropped.
1st (Novice) 0F/10m. Car 9 - Jim Drake / Graham Robinson - Austin Mini Cooper ‘S’
2nd (1st Novice) 0F/17m. Car 3 - Luis Gutierrez Dias / Lucy Fryer - Austin Mini
3rd (Novice) 0F/19m. Car 6 - Ellen Tilney / Colin Sutton - Audi S3
4th (1st Expert) 0F/20m. Car 10 - Dave Thompson / Jarrod Thompson - Subaru Forester
5th (Novice) 1F/15m. Car 8 - Mike Banks / Mark Rutter - Triumph Spitfire
6th (Novice 2F/0m. Car 7 - Pat Tierney / Stuart Collett - MG ZR
7th (Novice) 3F/8m. Car 4 - Bradley Howlett / Simon Howlett - Peugeot 205
8th (1st Beginner) 4F/10m. Car 2 - Keith Lane / Julie lane - Ford KA
9th (Expert) 4F/15m. Car 12 - Michael Helm / Colin Wake - Triumph TR6
10th (Beginner) 10F/22m. Car 0 - Barry Withers / Alan Mills - BMW M535
11th (Beginner) 16F/18m. Car 1 - Tony Knell / Fiona Fynn - Toyota Avensis
Did Not Finish (Novice) -F/-m. Car 5 - Paul Dumbill / Scott Page- Peugeot 106 Rallye
Car 11 – withdrawn, car 0 ran as reserve.
Looking forward to the next 12 car season. Have a great summer.
I have emailed out the detailed results to all involved in Fridays 12 car; competitors, marshals and supporting car crews.
Please let me know if you didn’t get the email.
Many thanks for your support
I believe the Golf GTi is set up the same way. On our Dolomite, so we can use spots we have disconnected the inner headlights and connected the spots using the same wiring. If in doubt use dipped headlights in quiet zones (we always do) and make sure spots are wired to go out on dip.
Paul
Thanks for the results spreadsheet Ed. We seem to have been penalised 8 minutes at an NTC. I thought lateness at the end of a neutral section is penalty-free (other than eating into potential OTL time) - and so our total should be 0 fails and 12 minutes?
Or else we wouldn't have stopped to plot the last three sections then.
Sorry to raise this now.
Colin.
[quote=Sutnav]Thanks for the results spreadsheet Ed. We seem to have been penalised 8 minutes at an NTC. I thought lateness at the end of a neutral section is penalty-free (other than eating into potential OTL time) - and so our total should be 0 fails and 12 minutes?
Or else we wouldn't have stopped to plot the last three sections then.
Sorry to raise this now.
Colin.[/quote]
Colin, I'll have to take advice on this and get back to you.
Ed, don't worry too much. We wouldn't want the result changing now - will teach me to keep track of minutes lost so I can check at the time. Just want to be clear for future reference, for me and the other relatively new navigators.
I am sure one of the more experienced navs will advise here soon.
Colin.
Colin
You are correct, you should not be penalised for taking to long through a Nuetral section, other than OTL.
I have always advised during our navigational training sessions to consider plotting at the end of Nuetrals rather than having to stop and plot within the competitive section.
Ed Scott
that puts you ahead of us, then!!
I think it'd be fair to get the results changed and I'm happy to hand the silver over.
And a lesson learnt for us too, we actually got our time at NTC6 and then pulled over to plot the tulips. We should've done it the other way, am I correct?
Colin, I will speak this the Results secretary tomorrow to get the NTC rules clarified.
My understanding and my intension, when I was advised to made TC-6 non competitive, was to allow sufficient time for crews to cross Fyfield without DSO infringements. No make up time was allowed to ensure crews did not have an advantage by going faster. If I have inadvertently given a more knowledgeable crew such as yourself an opportunity to stop un-penalised and plot the rest of the course, then this is an error on my side. If I had known this I would have made the section timed.
You were the only crew to clock in late to TC-6, and I take from this that you were the only nav who knew of this rule; that is assuming you are correct, otherwise all crews, other than experts, would stop and plot to the finish.
The reason I gave sealed envelopes to be opened at NTC-1 was to stop crews hurrying to the control and gaining a few minutes free plot time. If I had not done this, would you have taken time at NTC-1 to plot the entire course, and clocked in late un-penalised with the whole route pre-plotted?
Please excuse me if I sound like I'm having a rant, as this is far from my intension, and I do view you as the unfortunate victim of my learning the organisers role. my personal opinion, and I believe the spirit of competition, is that your time penalty stands and so should the results as published. But as I say above, I will take advise on this, especially so that I and other new organisers do not unwittingly make such errors again.
Last but, not least, I apologise to you and Ellen for my error, Eddie.
Ed and Luis
I have scored goals when offside, taken LBW wickets which would never have hit the stumps and hit cones that never got penalised. Referee/umpire/CoC's decision is always final, sometimes you gain sometimes you lose.
On Nat. B rallies there is half an hour before results are final, if I had taken a note of what we had dropped then I would have known on the night. No way it should be changed 2 days later. I don't think anyway protests and inquests are in the spirit of 12 car events. I raised it really only for clarification. If I learn, other crews learn and even organisers learn then that is what the 12 cars are all about.
Ed - I am not sure because I have never organised a 12 car (though would be happy to next season) but I think what you probably wanted was a transport section - you can set that at 20 mph to avoid DSO type issues but there are penalties for lateness?
Please don't take any of this as criticism - it was a really good event which we thoroughly enjoyed.
EDIT: Just realised you apologised - thanks, but that really is unnecessary. Also, if we had had the nav at MTC0 and I had spotted on the night that TC1 was shown as an NTC I probably would have plotted then - but I didn't spot it! I am sure a more experienced nav might well have though.
Hi Eddie
Thanks for a very enjoyable rally on Friday. My Self and Mike Banks found the clues and timings just about right. I am not quite sure how we missed a codeboard as we drove the right route but as the grass is starting to grow up maybe it was a bit obscured I know one time control board was partly hidden by grass.
The comments regarding the non competitive section have thrown up some interesting comments. For myself I have long wondered what ANY stands for in the makeup box on the time card. Reading the comments on the forum it would seem that it means no makeup time allowed, but surely it should be just a 0 in the box which would make more sense as ANY could mean anything.
I appreciate Eddie and Adrian that you have just followed the format of other rally's and as it is your first rally you did a very good job. Does anyone know what the Blue Book says on this or is it just the CMC that does it this way.
Does anyone else agree with me that 0 would be better than ANY in the makeup time box?
"Any" used to mean that you could make up any amount of time you were early by, as the section was short enough.
In the past people interpreted the three-quarter rule to mean that any amount of make up could be taken on sections shorter than 8 minutes. A few years ago the Motorsport UK made it known they wouldn't permit that any more, but failed to quite make the Blue Book say it. There still is no penalty defined in the BB for being later than scheduled time, but earlier than due time on a short standard section where the three-quarter rule does not apply...
If you saw "Any" on this event, then the time card generator Eddie was given must have been an older one which puts the word "Any" for the make up of any short section - the latest version just puts a dash. For an NTC, ideally the word "None" would be typed in instead.
I think the whole event should be scraped and we should run it again this Friday. this time I would make sure I saw all the code boards.
well done Ed great first effort.
[quote=EddieC]
............. If I have inadvertently given a more knowledgeable crew such as yourself an opportunity to stop un-penalised and plot the rest of the course, then this is an error on my side. If I had known this I would have made the section timed.
You were the only crew to clock in late to TC-6, and I take from this that you were the only nav who knew of this rule; that is assuming you are correct, otherwise all crews, other than experts, would stop and plot to the finish.
............... Eddie.[/quote]
Although I was not there so comment is perhaps dangerous from a distance, I will take responsibility for the use of the NTC through Fyfield.
When helping Eddie on organising I felt that the route through Fyfield should be Neutral as it is a heavily built up area. I did not consider the issue whereby crews who had not completed their plotting could then take advantage of not dropping time to finish off the plotting to the finish.
The rules are quite clear, in a standard section late arrival after your due time is penalised according to the regulations, for Neutral and Transport sections there is no lateness penalty except to be within OTL. There are penalties for early arrival at all controls except for the ¾ rule on standard sections (which Tony has made a valiant attempt here to describe). On transport sections they are typically there to allow time to be made up where the route is particularly boring, etc and on Neutral sections the penalty is heavy to avoid potential PR issues.
It is very difficult to organise any event that does not go through built up / 30mph areas, and we need to be sensitive in providing enjoyable competition and one that is not influenced by external events – e.g. stuck at a level crossing, very busy traffic in village centre, etc which subsequently results in crews trying to regain the time lost and causing PR issues, etc.
It is important that as competitors you know the rules and if in this instance the inclusion of the neutral allowed one or more crews to exploit the fact that they could complete their plotting without being penalised for losing time then so be it.
Life is unfair (Owen and I have lost three events this year due to rallying circumstances where a win for us was reasonably clear cut), and all competitors should know the rules. Then organisers will have to come up with an alternative to avoid the issue for those learned enough to exploit the position.
Apology over, there have been a number of comments regarding 12 cars in the last few months, is it now time for the club to review the 12 car regs and overall situation to (i) help competitors and (ii) support organisers?
Bob
Bob,
After a fantastically successful 2013/14 Winter Series in which virtually all events were fully subscribed and generated some excellent competition as well as bring on board some new organisers we now need to start planning the 2014/15 series and beyond.
I will be leading this review on behalf of the committee and yourself and other organisers and competitors will be invited to the first meeting which will take place in May so that firm dates, organisers, roads, overall framework and support for organisers can be in place in time for the new season. Questions including should be running table tops and 20/20s will also be asked.
I do not propose to use this forum for comments at present but once the sub-committee has met a few times then we will share our ideas with the wider membership.
[quote=bobb]
...
It is important that as competitors you know the rules and if in this instance the inclusion of the neutral allowed one or more crews to exploit the fact that they could complete their plotting without being penalised for losing time then so be it.
Life is unfair (Owen and I have lost three events this year due to rallying circumstances where a win for us was reasonably clear cut), and all competitors should know the rules.[/quote]
I agree with Bob in that it is the competitor´s responsibility to know the rules, and as he also said, Colin used his knowledge of them to make the most out of that time. Experience is a skill! The rules about penalties on transport and neutral sections are clear from the Blue Book, even I understood once I read them...
Of course, had Lucy and I known them we would have done the same and, I guess, all the others too!
Let me say again big thanks to Eddie and all the others that helped him on his first ever event as organiser that it was a great one. The route, and in my short experience the timing too, was fantastic. More and better next year!
[quote=PaulB]
I will be leading this review on behalf of the committee and yourself and other organisers and competitors will be invited to the first meeting which will take place in May so that firm dates, organisers, roads, overall framework and support for organisers can be in place in time for the new season. Questions including should be running table tops and 20/20s will also be asked.
[/quote]
I am looking forward to it, both as an organiser (again I hope, if you will have me) and as a competitor.
Some common "organising practises" will be a good thing.
Cheers
Colin